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WTR Declined

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o_dayao@yahoo.com

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 4

Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:28 pm Post subject: WTR Declined

Hi, I arrived here in Wellington last January with a WTR visa. The WTR expired last May 15 without me finding a job so, my application for residency was declined. My VO was a real hard-ass, sobrang by the book. Anyway, I found a job last May 30 that was related to my qualifications and experience. My question is, what should be my next course of action? I have a work permit valid till 15 August. My job is a permanent one and my employer is very supportive of my goal of settling here permanently and will help out in terms of the visa/permit requirements. 1. Should I file a new EOI now? How long will that process take? What if I file an EOI and it hasn't been acted upon yet by the time 15 Aug rolls around? 2. Should I apply for a 2 yr work permit at the same time that I'm filing an EOI? Syempre, magastos itong option na ito but, is this my best option? 3. File an appeal with NZIS (there is that mechanism) stating that 15 days after my WTR expired, I got the required job. Again, I don't know the success rate of this route, filing an appeal also entails expenses and if they don't come out with a decision by 15 Aug, I'm gonna double or triple my expenses with applications for work permit and filing an EOI anyway. 4. Go back to Manila where salaries are three times more than NZ's and goods costs only 30% of what they cost here in NZ? I'm just joking about number 4 although there is a lot of truth in it. For a first world country, NZ wages are obscenely low!

levi

Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Auckland Central, New Zealand

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: WTR Declined

o_dayao@yahoo.com wrote:

Hi, I arrived here in Wellington last January with a WTR visa. The WTR expired last May 15 without me finding a job so, my application for residency was declined. My VO was a real hard-ass, sobrang by the book. Anyway, I found a job last May 30 that was related to my qualifications and experience. My question is, what should be my next course of action? I have a work permit valid till 15 August. My job is a permanent one and my employer is very supportive of my goal of settling here permanently and will help out in terms of the visa/permit requirements.
1. Should I file a new EOI now? How long will that process take? What if I file an EOI and it hasn't been acted upon yet by the time 15 Aug rolls around?
2. Should I apply for a 2 yr work permit at the same time that I'm filing an EOI? Syempre, magastos itong option na ito but, is this my best option?
3. File an appeal with NZIS (there is that mechanism) stating that 15 days after my WTR expired, I got the required job. Again, I don't know the success rate of this route, filing an appeal also entails expenses and if they don't come out with a decision by 15 Aug, I'm gonna double or triple my expenses with applications for work permit and filing an EOI anyway.
4. Go back to Manila where salaries are three times more than NZ's and goods costs only 30% of what they cost here in NZ?
I'm just joking about number 4 although there is a lot of truth in it. For a first world country, NZ wages are obscenely low!

Hope my answers made sense:
1. You mentioned that your original WTR (let's call it WTR 1) expired last 15 May, so probably you are now have a general (open) work visa.

Under the new rules, if you acquired relevant when you were under a work visa, you have to do the WTR all over again. Yep, your WTR 1 is done and dusted and now you have to go through the same sh*tty process all over again!

2. I think you should discuss this with your visa officer (VO). Since your VO considers the Operation Manual as the proverbial bible, you might have to apply for a two year work visa first (since the WTR process takes a long while) so that your stay here will be legal while you wait for your residency papers.

But, before applying for a two-year work visa, check the following facts:

*Is my employment permanent or contractual for a period of 12 months?
*Are my working hours more than 30 hours a week?
*Am I paid a gross annual salary of $55,000.00?
*Is my employer an accredited employer of NZIS? Or did my employer exert every effort in finding a suitable Kiwi employee and no Kiwi was ready, willing and able to take the job that you accepted?

-if one of them is no, then you might not get a two year work visa.

3. Yes there is an appeal with the NZIS but I am not sure of the process and the basis for the appeal. I am not sure if this is the best process you intend to take.

4.Yes it is true that salaries in Manila are triple than that in NZ, coz the exchange rate is 30 pesos to 1 NZ dollar!

Yes, goods here are more expensive here than in Manila, if you convert it. Also, there are not much choices here unlike in Manila. But in terms of the basic stuffs (esp. food), the prices are still affordable.

I am not sure about the wages being obscenely low coz according to the papers NZ has the highest minimum wage, even higher than Australia (conversions allowed).

When my husband started on his first job, his net pay was really low but through sheer hard work he was blessed with a higher salary (and a higher tax bracket, sob!). The taxes here are also high to defray most of the services provided by the government, including healtcare, education and infrastructure.

-Congratulations on finding relevant work. Hopefully that will be a start of better things for you and your family. All information I have imparted can be found on the www.immigration.govt.nz website. All the best.

aya67

Joined: 27 May 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

Hi o_dayao@yahoo.com, I am waiting for my WTR and I have these questions: 1) What is your profession ? 2) When did you arrive in NZ? I mean when did you start looking for job ? I suddenly felt nervous when I read your post. I was given 12-month deferral period during which I have to work accounting-related job. Thanks and God bless

o_dayao@yahoo.com

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 4

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject:

Hi aya67, I worked for a bank in Manila as the chief currency dealer. I traded foreign exchange and I guess that's my skill. My original WTR was approved last November 2007 but came here to NZ January 2008 and I've done nothing since then but apply for jobs. I mentioned that I made around 150 applications but that's not really true. It's closer to 200 actually. I researched well and did everything tipsters told me, i.e. dumbed down my CV, made it kiwi-style, took out all my titles, took out my MBA, etc. The unvarnished truth is, it is tough to land a job in NZ. Not impossible, but tough, especially if you were already doing very well in Manila. You get the usual "overqualified", "no NZ experience" ek-ek. Bottomline: NZ is not as welcoming of migrants as the NZIS will lead you to believe. There is a schizophrenia between what government wants and what society wants. I don't take it against the kiwis, kung mga pinoy were in the kiwis' place, baka mas hostile pa tayo sa foreigners. But this place is littered with a lot of sob stories from pinoys and other migrants for whom NZ was never meant to be. On the otherhand, marami namang successful rin. Of course, those are the stories one hears about because those who had a hard time are too embarrassed to talk about it. I don't want to discourage you but I hope I'm letting you see the other side of the coin. It would be really Imeldific of us here if all we harp on are "the true, the good, and the beautiful" kumbaga. There are real risks involved, don't sweep them under the rug. Come here with your eyes open. By the way, unemployment here is 3.6% but is projected to rise to 6% - almost double accdg to the NZ central bank - this year. So, finding a job would be a little tougher in the near future. Again, not impossible. Pero, what you have going for you is that you were given a 12 month WTR. Under the old rules of 6 months - of which I fell under - talagang lamang ang talo. I think with 12 months, your odds are much, much better.

ann2

Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 26

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject:

It is not your fault. NZ is open to certain fields, not all the fields. Unfortunately, your field is not one of them. Good fields would be: 1. nursing 2. agriculture 3. hotel and restaurant and tourism 4. dairy and other food related 5. IT Business related, accounting and some other fields have more difficult circumstances.

vegimite

Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:03 am Post subject:

additional good fields 1. telecom 2. electrical engineering / mechanical engineering

ric_terran

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 17

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject:

Hi, Just want to help you out. So you were originally under a WTR visa, is this for 6 months or 2 years? Anyways, I had a friend who was denied residency but when he found a job that was related to his skills, he applied for an extension for a work visa (in case lang) and then he applied for his residency and then was approved. If I were you, tell the immigration that you found a job para naman alam nila that you still exist, mag file ka na rin nang work visa, then submit your documents for residency even though wala ka pang 3 months so you know the state of your application. By the way, before you submit your application do a specific covering letter. Meaning state the law of immigration n.z and then reason out why the job you have is a skilled one and should be worth of residency. By the way it's also good to ask your employer to draft a support letter. Then take it from there. And don't bully your v.o because, let's face it we need to kiss their ass. Pag meron ka nang p.r, hanapin mo sa yellow pages kung saan siya naka tira tapos sunugin mo bahay niya Hope this helps you before making another EOI, sayang din ang pera at hirap. Pinkee

Varnom27

Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: WTR Declined

guys, i'm studying application for immigrant in NZ, i have read most if not all issues in this forum.. i'm happy that not only good stories but including frustrations.. i'm learning base on your experiences.. i'm academician and i.t. professional at the same time.. i've heard about WTR and i would like to ask the chances of landing a job for those fields.. do kiwi accept us (filipino) to be there lecturer? i'm quite discourage.. may consultant did not tell me this, however, i haven't issued much money yet to them so i planned not to engage myself to them and thru this forum i'll do it on my own. they told me that my qualifictions is indemand and needed so they can help me to go to NZ in less than a year.. i haven't read much to our kababayan who failed and get back to RP with nothing.. and start again.. i know its really hurting on their part or maybe embarrasing? but their stories will be our guide.. they may help lot of our kababayan who would like to settle in NZ...

levi

Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Auckland Central, New Zealand

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Re: WTR Declined

Varnom27 wrote:

guys, i'm studying application for immigrant in NZ, i have read most if not all issues in this forum.. i'm happy that not only good stories but including frustrations.. i'm learning base on your experiences.. i'm academician and i.t. professional at the same time.. i've heard about WTR and i would like to ask the chances of landing a job for those fields.. do kiwi accept us (filipino) to be there lecturer? i'm quite discourage.. may consultant did not tell me this, however, i haven't issued much money yet to them so i planned not to engage myself to them and thru this forum i'll do it on my own. they told me that my qualifictions is indemand and needed so they can help me to go to NZ in less than a year.. i haven't read much to our kababayan who failed and get back to RP with nothing.. and start again.. i know its really hurting on their part or maybe embarrasing? but their stories will be our guide.. they may help lot of our kababayan who would like to settle in NZ...

We really cannot expect people who had unfortunate experiences in nz to tell the sordid tale. We have enough information on the immigration website and immigration is always quick to remind that not all who apply for residency are successful for a host of different reasons.

Sadly, there are also others who were successful in acquiring permanent residency but preferred to go back to Manila, again for a host of different reasons.

Human nature, I guess.

Before I answer your queries, my words of wisdom for any prospective migrant are these:

"Lower your expectations and then you will enjoy New Zealand."

"Nothing in new zealand will be given to you on a silver platter, a migrant from god-knows-where. You have to be hungry enough and focused enough to get what you want."

"Wala nang hiyaan dito. Don't be conscious of your accented English. People already know that you are not from New Zealand and they will understand if your subject-verb predicate is not perfect as long as they can understand what you are saying."

Now for your queries:

1. I think you are expecting too much that you will get to new zealand within a year. Consultants will always tell you what you want to hear to get your account.

Lower expectations a bit, unless you are lucky enough to snag a job in new zealand while in the philippines. Otherwise, the skilled migrant category takes about one and a half years to two years to complete.

2. Being a lecturer in New Zealand: I am not sure but I think being an educator in new zealand would be more of a hurdle than being an IT professional. Probably becuase educators from other countries need to pass a higher IELTS (english profeciency exam) than other migrants in other professions? Can someone correct me on this?

Good luck on your migration.

Varnom27

Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: WTR Declined

thanks levi!... i'm looking at other countries style/policy on application.. it seems that NZ has high risk due to WTR... do u think dat it could be one of the reason why the population is still low? actually i'm not expecting too much on NZ, my only plan is to be there, land a job and enjoy what NZ can offer... i've been to other forum like pinoy to canada.. since im studying which country to apply, it seems that NZ is the most risky, and reading the threads i found out that the big problem comes when you get there due to this WTR.. unlike in CA or OZ.. of course we would like to be on our field pero i understand the fact that it takes time to prove it to them (kiwi's). Of course everyone of us would like to take the risk if we have lot of $$$$.. have u heard or would u know a friend or acquaintance who ended up going back to RP due to this WTR? if yes on the average can u give me approximation? like 1 ouf 10? This would help us (aspiring immigrant) to decide which country to go.. again thanks levi for sharing your time...

levi

Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 258
Location: Auckland Central, New Zealand

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: WTR Declined

Varnom27 wrote:

thanks levi!... i'm looking at other countries style/policy on application.. it seems that NZ has high risk due to WTR... do u think dat it could be one of the reason why the population is still low?

actually i'm not expecting too much on NZ, my only plan is to be there, land a job and enjoy what NZ can offer... i've been to other forum like pinoy to canada.. since im studying which country to apply, it seems that NZ is the most risky, and reading the threads i found out that the big problem comes when you get there due to this WTR.. unlike in CA or OZ.. of course we would like to be on our field pero i understand the fact that it takes time to prove it to them (kiwi's). Of course everyone of us would like to take the risk if we have lot of $$$$..

have u heard or would u know a friend or acquaintance who ended up going back to RP due to this WTR? if yes on the average can u give me approximation? like 1 ouf 10? This would help us (aspiring immigrant) to decide which country to go..

again thanks levi for sharing your time...

no, their population is really low even before and personally, i would like to keep it that way.

i think that in terms of CA v OZ v NZ, NZ wins in terms of cost and the number of documents you have to submit to migrate. However, in terms of CA and OZ, they give you permanent residency already before you arrive in their respective countries, unlike in NZ that you have to get skilled employment before you acquire residency.

In terms of lifestyle, if you're a city mouse, then high-tail to the main cities of CA or OZ, but if you like the outdoors and pursue a lot of outdoor activities and a slower pace in life for you and your family then nz is the right place for you. Though this country needs (A LOT OF) improvement, i really appreciate the fact that healthcare and education (until college, which is equivalent to high school in our country) is relatively free compared to CA and OZ.

But, salaries here are lower compared to what one earns in CA or OZ and this is a weird phenomenon since NZ has one of the highest minimum wage in the developed world!! Also, house/property prices here are so expensive.

i do not have an accurate or even a ball-park figure. Things such as going back to nz because of a declined WTR is discussed here in a (understandably) hush-hush manner. The number would not be that high (like 50%) but definitely there is a small percentage of people who do go back home due to a declined wtr application.

o_dayao@yahoo.com

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 4

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject:

Hi, this is just anecdotal so, take it with that caveat. There were three other pinoy families who came here around the same time I did under the WTR 6 month program. One found a skilled job within two months and is now a PR. Three - me included - failed to land a skilled occupation by the time our WTRs lapsed and are now hanging by a thread in visa terms. By a strict interpretation of the conditions, all three of us should have already gone back to Manila, failing as would-be migrants here in NZ. All three families are still here on the basis of appeals, extensions, and other technicalities in an effort to postpone the day of reckoning. On the basis of our present jobs, one is probably going to have to go back to Manila pretty soon, one has a 50% chance of staying further while the other one has a 75% chance of eventually becoming a PR. While I was here, a neighbor of ours in Manila who migrated to NZ and became a PR has returned to the Philippines disappointed by her NZ experience. Malungkot daw and wages are way too low while cost of living is way too high. How low are wages here? Again, anecdotal lang ito. I've landed a job that is in line with what I used to do in Manila. My pay? 30% of what I used to make in Manila. Put another way, I used to make three times in Manila what I am currently receiving here at present. And no, I'm not an idiot who thinks one peso is equal to one NZ dollar. But I may not be representative of the typical migrant. The other pinoys who came here almost at the same time as I did, though, are also getting significantly less than what they were making in Manila. In terms of cost of living, a movie here is around 500 pesos while a 2-piece chicken meal with large Pepsi is about 300 pesos. I know, a minimum wage earner here will be able to afford that compared to a minimum wage earner in Manila. But I have serious doubts if the NZIS will approve the EOI of someone who flips burgers at Jollibee so, that is not a fair argument to make. Most of those approved under the WTR program are probably not minimum wage earners in Manila so telling them that hey, your minimum wage here is better than the minimum wage in Manila is a non sequitur. The six month WTR program - of which I fell under - was really tough and I would not be surprised if the casualty rate approaches 30%. Again, I have no idea what the actual failure rate is but, I'm pretty sure it is not a small and insignificant percentage of recent WTR arrivals. It's a good thing that the NZIS has come to their senses and amended the WTR period to 9 or 12 months. Notice most of the happy migrant stories are from those who came here under the old 2 yr program while the sad stories are from those who were under the 6 month WTR. You really need a lot of time to land even one job and, unfortunately, the NZ economy is going into the tank at present and scoring skilled employment under these circumstances became that much tougher for would-be migrants. I really wouldn't recommend people to migrate here at this time. Wait for better economic times, whenever that may be. As to the low population in NZ, one cannot deny that the kiwis are voting with their feet. The number of people migrating here from countries like pinas are just barely enough to offset the number of native kiwis who are leaving NZ for Australia, Great Britain, etc. The net migration (immigrants less emigrants) is about zero. Without the WTRs and other migrants, NZ's population growth rate would be negative partly because of low birth rate but primarily because of their own citizens leaving their own country in droves. Food for thought, huh? As to Canada vs Australia vs NZ, those two other countries aren't exactly slums either. They also have the great outdoors - a lot of people would say Canada's and Australia's outdoors are vastly superior to NZ but that is a matter of personal opinion. The only advantage for NZ from an immigration point of view, really, is that it is much, much easier to be approved. BUT, WTR nga lang. Hilaw na PR. Half-preganant, kumbaga. Madaling makapasok dito, pero, mahirap mag-stay because of the WTR requirements. It is high risk. Australia and Canada, on the otherhand, mas mahirap pumasok but, once pasok, talagang pasok. No more anxieties. Under the WTR, your sleepless nights have just started once you've been approved.

Varnom27

Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: WTR Declined

Thanks Again! I guess your ideas jives with mine.. we share the same assessment which is going to NZ is easier than CA and OZ. I'd like challenges however, to give up my career in RP and future of my family for unsecured PR is another story... I don't wanna go back here in RP due to a failed WTR... And I can't accept the fact that I might failed WTR due to their way of recognizing immigrants like us... If I'm single i'd pursue my plans in NZ the soonest and i'll accept their challenge... But with your ideas and experiences combined with my study i'd rather file our application to either CA or OZ. True the processing is quite long but there's assurance of holding the PR before we relocate. I understand that migrating to other country is not for all.. I strongly believe that this is for those who has the skills and of course the $$$$... because if this is for all no body will be left here in RP Guys, though i'm suspending my plans in NZ that doesn't mean that I wont go there... I created other plans and still NZ is included... in HIS time I would love to see you all there and share a cup of cofi... by the way you still might see me posting here for some inquiries... again thank you!!! God bless!

zoey

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject:

For argument's sake, let's put the minimum wage in NZ at a conservative $25,000 per year. If you were earning 3 times this much in the Philippines, then you must have been receiving $75,000 a year, which is equal to P2,250,000.00/year (using a conservative exchange rate of 30 to 1). Wow, that's P187,500 a month, not counting other benefits like 13th month pay, etc. I would assume that a person earning that much in Manila would be in a top executive position. My first question: Why did you leave Manila if you were earning a lot? Second, why stay in NZ if you feel that NZ wages are "obscenely low"? You can EASILY recover your losses if you go back to your job in Manila now. A person of your caliber would not have any problems getting another high-paying job in Manila, Australia or Canada for that matter. Just wondering.

o_dayao@yahoo.com

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 4

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:

Definitely, moving to NZ was not financially motivated. We knew that - to mangle an expression - the grass was browner in NZ compared to Manila for us in money terms and we expected to take a financial hit. The wage discrepancy that eventually turned out, though, is a little bigger than we had anticipated. But that's ok for now, we moved here for personal/family reasons which I really can't get into in a public forum such as this. If the financial aspect begin to outweigh the original reasons why we moved here, then, the proper thing for us to do is really to just go back to Manila.

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